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Topic: 1 Driver? |
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#1 posted Jul 18th 2006, 19:46:16
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Firstly this is not a propsal im just wondering about it. so here it is
In real formula 1 a team has two drivers but we only have 1 driver why is that? I no we have teams of ten but in your own personal team im on about.
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#2 posted Jul 18th 2006, 19:52:26
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i guess the way this game is made and coded it would be quite confusing and a lot more hassle if this was the case at the moment.
im sure the guys are working on better and more realistic ways to improve this game... but i guess this game is ever evolving so we will have to wait and see what the future holds. would be nice tho i admit, if it was balanced correctly.
i think i see your point though. when the game was thought up/created, why was it thought to only have 1 driver..?
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#3 posted Jul 18th 2006, 19:53:25
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2 drivers = 2 cars = double money or half parts price = possible exploit concentrating on "first" car and have 2nd as always "One lap and broke 99% wear forever"
Would be a nice idea ASSUMING you can rule out ALL possible exploits
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#4 posted Jul 18th 2006, 19:53:43
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Two drivers per team, along with some team orders - now that would be something I doubt many other F1 management games have :)
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#5 posted Jul 18th 2006, 20:00:22
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Cough, uh... actually, there are a few of them around ;)... Which makes me think they won't be doing it here. I also think it just wouldn't work here. But I also think it would be a nic idea, if it cou;d work here... Mind you, I don't always think straight at 6 in the morning, while I wait for the race to begin... Oww my eyes hurt :|.
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#6 posted Jul 18th 2006, 20:09:17
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6 am wow 7pm here it would be cool if it worked and had team orders lol ferraria in indy 2004 :)
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#7 posted Jul 18th 2006, 22:24:25
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I have to stay awake till 3 in the morning to watch the race.And have to go to school at 7.I feel so tired at school.
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#8 posted Jul 18th 2006, 22:30:27
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I have a question. My previos driver's contracts is over so I proposed offers to some drivers. how much should I wait before they consider the offers?
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#9 posted Jul 18th 2006, 22:45:29
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You have to wait till around the next race.
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#10 posted Jul 18th 2006, 23:53:29
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2 drivers per team isnt good thing you have to update 2 cars and have to qulify with 2 drivers
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#11 posted Jul 19th 2006, 14:14:59
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the decision was very easy.
- 2 drivers, or better 2 cars, means only half the spots available for managers in a group.
But there are also other considerations.
- 2 cars also means much much much quicker data collection and crackign formula's, because you can control much easier all variables.
- 2 cars means also that not a driver championship, but the team(constructor)championship is what is important. Teamorders are not a problem, just as long as drivers championship is not what it is about. otherwise you indeed end up with what Andrei described, which is not desirable.
- 2 cars means you need to ensure that on average the game should not be just 2 times 1 car like it is now, but have an added TEAMvalue to the game. In PC games (GPmanager etc) this is relative easy to implement, because you can adjust racestrategy realtime. In a webbased sim like this, it is much harder. Maybe not impossible, but its hard to have a real added value for 2 cars.
Othergames have tried to mimic this my introducing teaming up with another person (either by choice or randomly assigned) and being (partly) dependent on the results of your teammate. Personaly, I am not so fund of such systems.
So, that is roughly why for now its a one-car-per-manager game.
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#12 posted Jul 19th 2006, 19:42:59
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Ok just wanted to classify why it was.
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Not the newest of threads but (as posted in another thread today) I feel that perhaps the situation for this proposal has changed a bit since 2006 (haven't we all?).
With the main argument against managers entering two cars being the lack of available spots on the track in each group, things are quite different today.
I find that there are a couple of issues often being discussed today with regards to the state of GPRO:
- there's a lack of cars on the track in most rookie groups
- it's difficult to recruit new players
The second point is often linked to the difficult entry phase into the game as new players face the difficult task of gathering useful data to learn from, a task that takes a long time. Joining a team will help tremendously in this process but as a new player it's difficult to find an experienced team willing to take you on.
This is where the idea of managers running two cars could be worth discussing again.
If new managers were allowed to run two cars for their first full season at the rookie level:
- the rookie groups would see many more cars on the track (allowing managers to enter two cars until all the 40 spots on the grid were taken on a first come first served basis)
- these managers would be able to learn a lot about the game over the course of their first full season
- these managers would be much more attractive for teams looking to hire new members as the ability to run two cars would be very desirable
I feel it could be one way of addressing some of the issues people are having about the current state of affairs for the game and at least worthy of some consideration and discussion.
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Thats a good idea as a newbie myself this would help.
But i have no problem collecting my own data and working from it.
But others have less attention span and its getting worse with the next generation.
What IMO will help keep players longer is rethinking this FOBY rule.
When a newbie starts the last thing some want to do, is to work everything out themselves, just to spend 2-3 seasons doing everything wrong, you basically just loss interest.
There shouldn't be a rule about discussing certain things. If some managers want to keep things to themselves then no prob. But if some managers want to share there opinions, experience and data. Then there shouldn't be a rule to stop them.
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#15 posted Mar 28th 2015, 13:55:15
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Quote ( Daniel Smith @ March 28th 2015,13:38:03 ) There shouldn't be a rule about discussing certain things. If some managers want to keep things to themselves then no prob. But if some managers want to share there opinions, experience and data. Then there shouldn't be a rule to stop them.
There isn't a rule about not sharing opinions, experience and data. The only rule is about not doing this in the public threads. You are free to discuss game related stuff via PMs, and most likely you will find veterans that will give you a hand without any issue.
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Quote ( Daniel Smith @ March 28th 2015,13:38:03 ) What IMO will help keep players longer is rethinking this FOBY rule.
When a newbie starts the last thing some want to do, is to work everything out themselves, just to spend 2-3 seasons doing everything wrong, you basically just loss interest.
That is just a misconception.
The rule is about revealing detailed information.
Quote ( Edwin Silva @ March 28th 2015,13:55:15 ) most likely you will find veterans that will give you a hand without any issue.
And there is also the mentor program
/gb/forum/ViewForum.asp?ForumId=24
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^
Actually, this guy helped me a lot when I started, same as Flor, Sion and Winkley. If I was you, I'd spam his mailbox.
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#18 posted Mar 28th 2015, 15:25:50
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ March 28th 2015,15:12:48 ) Actually, this guy helped me a lot when I started,
+1.
Was always able to bounce ideas around and get pointed in the right direction without asking for detailed answers.
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#19 posted Mar 28th 2015, 15:42:05
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Quote ( Sven Bojkowski @ March 28th 2015,13:15:26 ) If new managers were allowed to run two cars for their first full season at the rookie level:
- the rookie groups would see many more cars on the track (allowing managers to enter two cars until all the 40 spots on the grid were taken on a first come first served basis)
- these managers would be able to learn a lot about the game over the course of their first full season
- these managers would be much more attractive for teams looking to hire new members as the ability to run two cars would be very desirable
Rookie is easy mostly because there are fewer managers.
"first come first served" would discriminate against a lot of managers who are not able to do their qualifications right after the reset.
if it is ONLY in the first season, I would be fine with it, but I feel this would make double accounts much more desirable for people. do we want more people playing this game or more cars on the track?
EDIT: personally I would actually like having 2 drivers per manager for all groups, so much of the game has been figured out by so many people so many seasons ago that it would seem fine and there is space in the current group system (~31,5k spots for ~14k managers). I don't expect it to happen, as the admins haven't even hinted of being interested in this sort of thing. The only reason they might do it is to have an excuse to double the supporter credit cost per race :D, it would be a good excuse and they need the money :P:
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#21 posted Mar 28th 2015, 18:17:04
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How do you handle promotion/relegation with 2 drivers
will a manager be allowed to have 1 driver in 1 division and the 2nd in another?
and will money be of total money from both spread as manager sees fit or will the money kept seperately?
1 car 1 driver is so much simplier dont you think?
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#22 posted Mar 28th 2015, 18:24:56
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Quote ( Håkan Ferm @ March 28th 2015,18:17:04 ) How do you handle promotion/relegation with 2 drivers
will a manager be allowed to have 1 driver in 1 division and the 2nd in another?
and will money be of total money from both spread as manager sees fit or will the money kept seperately?
1 car 1 driver is so much simplier dont you think?
I think you could choose only one driver to be eligible for points, there you have your concern evaporate haha
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#23 posted Mar 28th 2015, 18:30:08
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It could be better if instead of 2 drivers a random team is decided in all groups exc ept rookie .And 2 managers fight for constructors championship for avteam like sponsor and Discuss the things and strategies and will get money and weaker will benefit from stronger .
It is better than Giving 2 cars and more data
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Nice to see some intelligent discussion. Thanks guys :) I will try to address the points you raised one by one below.
- "first come first served"
One way of doing it would be to have each 2-car manager rank his cars #1 & #2 before the start of the season. They would then do qualifying runs with both cars, with the #1 car being guaranteed a spot on the grid. After qualifying ends, the vacant spots on the grid would then be filled with #2 cars, ranked by their qualifying times, until the grid was full.
- double accounts
Certainly a valid concern, but I think the risk of DAs will always be there due to the secretive nature of the game in combination with the fact that many people are bastards.
- promotion/relegation
Several possibilities here. One would be to have only a manger's #1 car qualify for promotion. Another would be to not allow a 2-car manager to promote in the season he's running two cars. It would give new players at least 3 seasons in rookie (counting the two-car season as two seasons worth of learning) before advancing to Amateur which again could be helpful in avoiding inexperienced players climbing the ranks too quickly.
- having drivers in separate divisions
No. My proposal is that 2 drivers would only be allowed for new players in their first rookie season.
- what about money?
A two car team would start out with a 35 million budget for each car. The manger basically runs two teams for one season with the purpose of learning the game faster; running two seasons at once if you will.
- 1 car 1 driver is so much simpler don't you think?
I don't see how 2 cars 2 drivers is that complicated. People are complaining that the game takes too long to learn and that the rookie groups don't have enough cars in them. This proposal addresses both things without causing big changes to the gameplay for the experienced players.
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Quote ( Håkan Ferm @ March 28th 2015,18:17:04 ) Quote
How do you handle promotion/relegation with 2 drivers
managers promote or relelgate based upon the sum of the 2 drivers is how I always pictured it.
Quote ( Håkan Ferm @ March 28th 2015,18:17:04 ) will a manager be allowed to have 1 driver in 1 division and the 2nd in another?
nope, that would be bad, since it is no different from having a double account-Quote ( Sven Bojkowski @ March 28th 2015,18:34:16 ) - "first come first served"
One way of doing it would be to have each 2-car manager rank his cars #1 & #2 before the start of the season. They would then do qualifying runs with both cars, with the #1 car being guaranteed a spot on the grid. After qualifying ends, th
you would need to work out the money too, team points - points for both drivers or only one, money for both or only one. lots of extra programming for admins for you to have 2 different cars to upgrade etc. I see only problems with giving a small minority of managers 2 drivers.
Quote ( Sven Bojkowski @ March 28th 2015,18:34:16 ) The manger basically runs two teams for one season with the purpose of learning the game faster;
In the first season most people just wing it - I don't really believe they would gain much from the extra data, in my experience most of them don't even save the data until I tell them to.
Quote ( Sven Bojkowski @ March 28th 2015,18:34:16 ) I don't see how 2 cars 2 drivers is that complicated. well you don't have to do any of the coding, so yeah I am sure you don't see it as complicated... This would essentially be the biggest change to the game since Season... beta 4. It is not "oh just do it it is not a big deal" kind of a thing.
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Quote ( Harri Pakosta @ March 28th 2015,23:12:46 ) In the first season most people just wing it - I don't really believe they would gain much from the extra data, in my experience most of them don't even save the data until I tell them to.
Well we can't play for them. If they don't utilize the tools available to them, that's something no change to the game is going to fix.
Quote ( Harri Pakosta @ March 28th 2015,23:12:46 ) well you don't have to do any of the coding, so yeah I am sure you don't see it as complicated... This would essentially be the biggest change to the game since Season... beta 4. It is not "oh just do it it is not a big deal" kind of a thing.
One manager, two accounts. It's been done illegally since the game was created I'm told. I'm sure it could be done legally as well.
Quote ( Harri Pakosta @ March 28th 2015,23:12:46 ) you would need to work out the money too, team points - points for both drivers or only one, money for both or only one. lots of extra programming for admins for you to have 2 different cars to upgrade etc. I see only problems with giving a small minority of managers 2 drivers.
The #1 car would be the managers official car. The #2 car is just an extra car and wouldn't be eligible for team points (obviously as if that was the case there could be teams with 19 cars competing).
And also, your concern about the massive amount of coding it would require didn't seem to concern the crew 9 years ago:
Quote ( Hans Barf @ July 19th 2006,14:14:59 ) the decision was very easy.
- 2 drivers, or better 2 cars, means only half the spots available for managers in a group.
But there are also other considerations.
- 2 cars also means much much much quicker data collection and crackign formula's, because you can control much easier all variables.
- 2 cars means also that not a driver championship, but the team(constructor)championship is what is important. Teamorders are not a problem, just as long as drivers championship is not what it is about. otherwise you indeed end up with what Andrei described, which is not desirable.
- 2 cars means you need to ensure that on average the game should not be just 2 times 1 car like it is now, but have an added TEAMvalue to the game. In PC games (GPmanager etc) this is relative easy to implement, because you can adjust racestrategy realtime. In a webbased sim like this, it is much harder. Maybe not impossible, but its hard to have a real added value for 2 cars.
Othergames have tried to mimic this my introducing teaming up with another person (either by choice or randomly assigned) and being (partly) dependent on the results of your teammate. Personaly, I am not so fund of such systems.
So, that is roughly why for now its a one-car-per-manager game.
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#27 posted Mar 29th 2015, 08:00:13
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ March 28th 2015,13:55:15 ) Quote ( Daniel Smith @ March 28th 2015,13:38:03 )
There shouldn't be a rule about discussing certain things. If some managers want to keep things to themselves then no prob. But if some managers want to share there opinions, experience and data. Then there shouldn't be a rule to stop them.
There isn't a rule about not sharing opinions, experience and data. The only rule is about not doing this in the public threads. You are free to discuss game related stuff via PMs, and most likely you will find veterans that will give you a hand without any issue.
And thats the rule im referring to.
I think there should be a thread for people to post the data they have collected. If they like to.
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#28 posted Mar 29th 2015, 08:02:03
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Quote ( Mikko Heikkinen @ March 28th 2015,14:16:39 ) Quote ( Daniel Smith @ March 28th 2015,13:38:03 )
What IMO will help keep players longer is rethinking this FOBY rule.
When a newbie starts the last thing some want to do, is to work everything out themselves, just to spend 2-3 seasons doing everything wrong, you basically just loss interest.
That is just a misconception.
The rule is about revealing detailed information.
Quote ( Edwin Silva @ March 28th 2015,13:55:15 )
most likely you will find veterans that will give you a hand without any issue.
And there is also the mentor program
/gb/forum/ViewForum.asp?ForumId=24
How is it a misconception? You are not allowed to reveal data on the forums.
I have found a few people even in PMs or in chat say FOBY.
And instead of mass PMing different managers it could be all in 1 thread for people to read.
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#29 posted Mar 29th 2015, 08:14:38
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OR.
If you don't want to have the data sitting on a public forums, have a list of managers who are willing to give data out. So people know who to PM with there questions.
I was given a mentor by Flo, didn't really do much for me, as we have lost contact already.
I do have a team member who gives out alot, and im so grateful.
So i can't complain at all.
I personally just find it strange that there is a rule for public discussions and chat discussions, thats all.
I play a few other online management games, and there are threads with the basics for all to see to ensure people don't make big mistakes.
Like training Ninja in rookie so much to the point a certain skill increases, and does more harm then good. Most should know what i mean, but don't want to say it as i might get in trouble.
It took me almost a season to find this out.
My mentor didn't think of this info in his list of tips, and my team member who has been helping didn't think of telling me right away until i asked the question.
Now the problem is, that people expect newbies just to ask all the right questions, but and i am a perfect example, we just don't know what the right questions are, and there is so much to take in. Having this info to read would be much better IMO.
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#30 posted Mar 29th 2015, 10:45:34
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Quote ( Daniel Smith @ March 29th 2015,08:14:38 ) Like training Ninja in rookie so much to the point a certain skill increases, and does more harm then good. Most should know what i mean, but don't want to say it as i might get in trouble.
While training ninja is probably not optimal in Rookie, I can't see it doing more harm than good. But well, I'm not too good, so maybe I don't know.
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